2 Soft Compounds
2 Soft Compounds is a weekly podcast focusing on Formula 1, hosted by radio broadcaster Rick Houghton and motorsport journalist and GrandPrix247 founder, Paul Velasco.
With a focus on unfiltered analysis, behind-the-scenes insights and expert commentary, the podcast offers fans an entertaining and informative take on the fastest sport in the world.
2 Soft Compounds
Going, Going, Gone! Horner Ousted In Red Bull's Radical Shake-Up
Going, Going, Gone! Horner Ousted In Red Bull’s Radical Shake Up
The Formula One world has been thrown into chaos with the stunning announcement that Christian Horner has been sacked as Red Bull team principal and CEO after 20 years at the helm. What seemed unthinkable just days ago has become reality, sending shockwaves through the paddock and raising profound questions about the future of the sport's dominant team.
This special episode of Two Soft Compounds dives deep into the bombshell news, exploring the multiple theories behind Horner's sudden dismissal. From the disappointing performance at the British Grand Prix to Jos Verstappen's eerily prophetic warning from March 2023 that "this team is going to implode" under Horner's leadership, Rick & Paul unpick the complex web of factors that may have led to this momentous decision. The recent exodus of key personnel – including Adrian Newey, Rob Marshall, and Jonathan Wheatley – looms large in our analysis, particularly after their skills helped rival teams outperform Red Bull at Silverstone.
Production Credits:
Presented by: Rick Houghton & Paul Velasco
Studio Engineer & Editor: Roy D'Monte
Executive Producer: Ian Carless
Produced by: W4 Podcast Studio & GrandPrix247
I don't make mistakes. I make prophecies that immediately turn out to be wrong. Anything can happen in Formula One, and it usually does. Hey, welcome to a special edition of two soft compounds with me, rick and Paul Velasco, the founder and editor-in-chief of Grand Prix2477.com. Well, it's been 20 years coming. He led Red Bull to eight Drivers' Championships and six team titles in the end, over that 20-year period, one of the most successful bosses in recent Formula 1 history, you may say. But it's finally happened, paul.
Speaker 2:After over a year of speculation, really into his future, christian Horner, the, the red bull boss, has been sacked indeed yeah, we thought, after a tantalizing and chaotic british grand prix, that we wouldn't have much news up until spars everyone would be recharging. But no ways. Wednesday, bam, here we have the news christian horner has been sacked by red bull. I'm still processing the information. I'm running the desk today solo because jad is off, so I'm just bombarded with news about, uh horner. And it just kicks up this incredible labyrinth of potential. I mean you gotta ask the question has it? Was he fired because he dropped the ball and for step in his leaving? That could be one of them, you know. I mean, you lose a driver with that capacity. Boom, you've got to go, mate. Has it just been too much bad publicity? Is it performance related? Their performance has been shocking. The team is just I don't see light at the end of the tunnel. I don't see them getting any new superstars. I don't see them developing the next Adrian Newey.
Speaker 2:And you know what was absolutely perhaps the nail in the coffin and we wrote about this, ironically, two or three hours before the announcement was made is that the shit show that Red Bull was at Silverstone that weekend could have been prevented by two of the ex-guys that worked with them, rob Marshall, who had two cars on the podium aka one-two for McLaren on the podium, aka one-two for McLaren. And, strategy-wise, their genius, their guru, jonathan Wheatley, put a Sauber on the podium. And you've got to look at that. Let's say, I am Matisic, the kid, the one that's inherited it, and I look at that and I say, mate, the ship is leaking.
Speaker 2:Jos Verstappen was right. In March last year I want to reiterate, march 2024, jos turned around and he said after that sexting thing, that saga, okay, he was exonerated, but you know what? It's a chain and ball to him. And at the time and I'm sorry to say this, rick, with all due respect, but the British media hardly touched on it that Jos Verstappen had said that if Horner does not leave, this team is going to implode. And he is playing the victim. But he's actually the problem. You're talking 11 months ago, oh, sorry, over a year ago, and he was spot on prophetic?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean there are a number of permutations for this, like you say. Is it simply down to a performance level? Is it still related to the scandal of over a year ago? Um, have the verstappen camp said listen to markov. They said, if you want to stop these rumors, then we need to uh, we need to have have the playing field that we wanted over a year ago, which is the, the removal of the team boss, and there's other things too. I mean there's another permutation which might say that Verstappen has made an agreement with another team. Horner was unable to prevent it and therefore he's been sacked for that. I mean there's still lots of rumours swirling around and no response from Christian Horner as of yet, and I and interestingly, I can't find anything official from red bull.
Speaker 2:You know how the actual and this is what doesn't confuse me. It just adds to the whole mystery of it. The reason first of all, I watched the story break right. First of all, the speculation led by built and then other more credible guys were getting onto it, including the daily mail and the daily mail. I know people give it a hard time, but their Formula One coverage is top notch. They do more than scratch the surface, and they had it too. And I started looking around and boom in my email, v-cobb have sent an email saying Mekis is the new Red Bull team principal. V-cobb, and Permain is now the V-Cobb team principal. Congratulations, thank you. I had a great time.
Speaker 2:Mickey's now in charge, but nothing from Red Bull, nothing official from Red Bull. I don't see anything on Twitter. Let's go back and check. Absolutely nothing. So that to me, is very strange. But Max Verstappen has come out and sent okay, here we go, here we go. It's just broken now. So, as we are recording this program, oracle Red Bull Racing have released this statement After 20 years with the team, christian Horner departs Oracle Red Bull Racing as team principal and CEO.
Speaker 2:We thank him for his tireless and exceptional work. He has been instrumental in building this team into one of the most successful in the in F1, with eight drivers championships. So, yeah, it's absolutely confirmed. Now there's no turning back, it's done, and Max Verstappen sent a message which was really beautiful. From our first race win to four world championships, we have shared incredible successes, winning memorable races and breaking countless records. Thank you for everything, christian. So you know, I think it's a divorce that no one saw come. Well, we all saw coming to a certain degree. I'm just and this is what I want to ask you is I question the timing, I mean in the middle of a season. That befuddles me. I mean, I'm sure we will understand why, but according to Martin Brundle, who texted Horner because he wanted to get the story from him, horner couldn't speak to him, but Horner said they have not given me a reason for why I've been axed.
Speaker 1:I mean, like we say, there could be a number of reasons. One of them could be Red Bull demonstrating to their stakeholders that they're taking decisive action when the team isn't performing. I mean the key personnel they've lost. Have they lost those directly because of Christian Horner? Has he not been able to keep the staff that he needed to to keep building the team in the way that he's been successful over the last 20 years? Or, you know, I get the impression that the staff started leaving after the scandal. You know, and and and again, like you say, with Jos Verstappen or Jos Verstappen, I should say whenstappen, I should say when he made that statement.
Speaker 1:You know, obviously ripples circulated around the rest of the team, and I think it was since then. It's always looked uncomfortable in that team. And then, of course, the results fade away towards the end of last season and the results this season haven't been good. They've got a second car that no one can drive. They're not able to pinpoint the issues properly. The rumour is that they've got major issues with their powertrain for next season, so that's been going on in the background with no clear solution in sight. It is a strange time to do it, I suppose, although, if you use the football analogy, you know they came off the back of the British Grand Prix. If that had been the FA Cup final, for instance, and your team had been thoroughly trounced, then that would be the time when you sat the manager. And you can use a lot of football analogies with Formula One.
Speaker 2:You've got to say it was trounced by players you let go. Yeah, that's the thing, that's the actual scenario here. Yeah, you know, I do believe it's got to do with that and I think it definitely is connected. But also there's a time of legacy, you know, let's not forget. You know, christian took that team in 2005. He took over, he had run junior teams with a lot of success and actually impressed the Red Bull guys. So he got on board. He got David Coulthard on board, who got Adrian Newey interested, and it was obviously the dream and the passion of Dietrich Mateschitz that actually funded the whole thing. And it cost him a lot of money, a lot of money. And it eventually came right when Sebastian Vettel won the first four the turn of 2010, I think it was. And yeah, then he's just. It's been victory after victory, many championships.
Speaker 2:So christian has an incredible cv. What he does outside the paddock and that kind of stuff, the shenanigans well, that's his own, that's his own demise. He's the architect of his own downfall with that. It's very silly actually, if you think about the massiveness the guy is in terms of formula one, and that's why I think he will pop up. He's not going anywhere. Maybe he'll take a sabbatical with his wife to sort the whole thing out. I don't know. But he might want to just sit it out until 26 and then check how the landscape lies, because I think there's going to be a lot of boss firing when some guys come with their wheelbarrows to the grid next year. Do you know what I mean? Do you remember when the rules changed last time, paddy Lowe thought he had the whole solution and he just dipped all of Williams and they kicked him out. Look, it's a very, very, very important year for designers and stuff, because whoever gets the maths right is going to keep their jobs and who doesn't? I think the worse you are on the grid next year, you're going to get fired, and I think that's where.
Speaker 2:Look, I think Christian could plug into any team, any team on the grid. He could go to Ferrari, fred Vasseur under pressure. Maybe there's already been a chat between. Listen mate, christian's phone's going to be ringing. There's no doubt about it. Alpine need a team principal. It's just where he wants to go. You know what I mean when you mention the football analogy. If you've managed Liverpool and man United at the at the height of their careers, do you actually want to go to Leicester, you know, or to Everton my team, you know what I mean. You don't really, but maybe that's a way to restart, to rebuild. He's only 51 years old, so it's not like this guy's going away.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think that could indeed be another permutation. You know, was he having secret talks with Ferrari about replacing Fred? Did Red Bull find out about it? Did they go? You want to go Off? You go. I mean, that's another permutation. I think one of the things we need to discuss in all of this is Max Verstappen. Of course, he's got a contract to the end of 2028. The rumors have been swirling about him talking to Toto Wolff at Mercedes. It now seems as though this is not an imminent change.
Speaker 2:That could be on the horizon for Max. So I'm going to disagree with you there, mate. I'm going to disagree with you Really. Yeah, look, you're a marketing guy and you're smart, right? Yeah, you've got George. Russell, I think, is delivering on every, every level for Mercedes. They haven't produced a great, really great car. Let's be honest. And let's be honest, russell hammered Lewis last year.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, as far as I'm concerned, and logically from a commercial point of view, you, as a radio media PR guy, where do you announce his contract for the next year, or three years or whatever? At his home Grand Prix, silverstone this weekend? Yeah, he didn't. That for me is a red flag. That is a major, major red flag. Yeah, he didn't. That for me, is a red flag. That is a major, major red flag because traditionally that's when drivers are announced on their home race, especially now in Mid-Sea. This is the time to confirm George. Yeah, and the fact that he isn't confirming George tells me he's definitely talking. He's hanging on for Max to make a call and if Max has made that call that he's going to Mercedes, then boom, horners. The buck stops with you, Christian. The team now is a proper shit show. I know you've lost our biggest asset. Yeah, bye-bye. You're gone, but again Aston Martin's been wielding a huge check. We know that, we know that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, this was mentioned in our main podcast, which you weren't at, unfortunately, last time, but Johnny Herbert, before the British Grand Prix, came out with a great statement. I really loved the way he said it. He said do not be put off by the Mercedes smoke screen around Max Verstappen. He said that's exactly what it is. It's a false flag. He ain't talking to Mercedes. This is the Aston Martin deal and it's being, you know, know, the Mercedes stuff's just being put up there to to fool people. Interesting, that that's wow. Yeah, so there could be something in that and the and the Toto Wolff not confirming Russell could be okay. Well, you know, we're gonna have more driver availability with the likes of I mean, no one would touch Lance Stroll, of course, but you know Alonso has been rumored to be, uh, you know, in the thoughts of Toto Wolff in the past. If he comes out of Aston Martin, is there a seat for him at the Mercedes team?
Speaker 2:Well, mate, it's like I said someone took a grenade and threw it into the paddock, yeah, and now it's chaos, it's absolute mayhem and everyone's running around. I mean, the phones are ringing nonstop, nonstop, non-stop. I'm telling you, I think no one's the next two weeks probably going to be the most stressful of the season for a lot of guys out there. Really, honestly, because futures are being decided now. And, yeah, I'm looking at the scenario. If I'm a team boss, if I'm Alpine Briatore, I'd want him, if I'm Well, you know, fred, what are you doing? Fred? Nothing Come. Yeah, let's get him. That's an option.
Speaker 2:Aston Martin I think they're just too top heavy. I think they're very top heavy. So I don't think there's a space there for him. He's not going to Mercedes, that's for sure. Where else could he go? He could. No, he wouldn't go to Sauber. So you know, his options are Ferrari. I would say that's a very good option. Alpine is Cadillac, cadillac. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head there. That would be a very good one. Or think of this, think of this the Thai owners. He's a billionaire. Shalem, I can't think of his whole name. But that guy, what if he's not a petrolhead? What if he's looking at all the shit that's going on and all the bad publicity sometimes gets he's not Dietrich matches, maybe he's looking this is, how many cans do we have to sell to actually fund this shit? And I say, well, 25 billion or whatever. And he says, well, listen, why don't we just flog it to Ford?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's the thing I mean nailed on here, which is why the phones are ringing off the hook, because it's rumour after rumour after rumour. Then there's people going well, it could be this, it could be that. No one really knows.
Speaker 2:It's early days and I think we've done this special early on time and I think when we do the preview of the next weekend's one, we'll have a lot more news. I think that's for sure. But in terms of, I want to ask you a question. Mickey's running Red Bull Thoughts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I think they were all impressed with what he did racing bulls, weren't they? I'm not sure if I share that, but of course we're not. You know, we're not partial to what went on behind the scenes and how he built that team up and how he structured things. You know, in my eyes, did he set the world alight? Probably not. I don't think he's the right guy.
Speaker 1:I mean, and he's going into a Red Bull team which is basically in disarray. I mean, without Max Verstappen they'd be bottom of the Constructors' Championship. I mean, that's massive. So he's going into a team in disarray. He's going into a team where key personnel are missing or inexperienced. He's going into a team that, if you believe the rumours, have serious, serious issues with the 2026 car, especially the powertrain. Apparently they're struggling to make things work in that new car, you know. So I mean. One thing I thought about this morning when I heard the news I thought maybe Christian Horne is actually relieved to have had the sack, because now he doesn't need to deal with any of these issues or these problems and the constant pressure on his shoulders is gone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good point. I think he was ambushed. Honestly, I think it's a good point. But I'm seeing a scenario where he was probably although Jad did notice his demeanor was kind of strange during this whole Grand Prix weekend, like a bit anxious, and he attributed to the weather at Silverstone, knowing that the car was, you know, underwinged and that Max had no grip and if it was going to rain, so he. But I think, even if you look at the photos and his body language in the media center, I think he had an inkling that something was going down. I'm not sure we're going to hear all that in due course, but again back to the question of Mekis. I don't think he's the right guy. I think a team like Red Bull needs a really, really big, heavy hitter or a guy like maybe Olly Oakes or someone like that. Start him from scratch and get him up. Mekis, what has he achieved? Him and Binotto imploded Ferrari. Then they left and left, and then he's now here at the thing, his drivers are always fucking crashing, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean. So what is he managing? Yeah, the tea, the coffee. No, I mean, you know, you've got to look at france tossed when he ran that team. He was running it, you know, and I felt he did a very good job. I don't think make he's done anything different, anything to actually deserve this. I think this is who else can they bring in? They've got nobody else. Ideally it would have been wheatley yeah, back out of sauber.
Speaker 1:You mean no, but he won't because he's left. Yeah, um, I'm just reading on the official formula one website talking about mechies. Uh, they say that he had a very close partnership with the ceo, peter beyer of the racing bulls, and together they had restructured that team and grown it in terms of personnel, and then he was highly rated for working at Racing Bulls by those around him and he was also highly rated by his former team, which, of course, was Ferrari, and he has a very close relationship with the FIA, apparently. So Red Bull senior management. Well, he does, he comes from there, right?
Speaker 2:yes.
Speaker 1:Red Bull Senior Management should help ease the transition into what is one of the biggest jobs in motorsport, which of course it is, but they obviously highly rate him for a number of sources.
Speaker 2:Well, they're going to. They're not going to say, oh look, he's a super prat he knows, fuck all about Formula 1, but we're going to make him team principal is.
Speaker 1:Is this, do you agree?
Speaker 2:I mean it's like, yeah, so yeah, look, it's like they're drivers, mate. They didn't say, hey, lawson's really shit, we're gonna put him in the car, the thing about it. You know, when you're running a shit little team like and I say this with all due respect I love every driver and I love every team, more than my own, but I'm like family. So I'm saying, when you're running a small team like v-corp, mate, the spotlights are not on you and every now and then you get an occasional result and you're a hero. But consistency is difficult. So let's see what happens when you're in the firing line.
Speaker 2:This is a 20-year it's big shoes to fill, mate. 20 years of the same team principle. Now you're going to come in there. Jean-todd was nearly fired after three years yeah, do you know what I'm saying? So it's a very big position and I don't think Mekis is ready. I hope he proves me wrong, because I just don't see him having the character that's needed to go into battle when it gets hectic with the Verstappens yeah, you know what I mean. When he has to go back for Max, I don't see him having the character that's needed to go into battle. When it gets hectic with the first happens yeah, you know what I mean, when he has to go back for Max and I don't know. I'm very curious to see how it all pan out. It could be a temporary thing, I don't know. But then who do you put there? Who would you have put?
Speaker 1:there. Yeah, I mean I wouldn't. I wouldn't know who I there, to be honest. I mean there may be gunter steiner. Gunter steiner would be great.
Speaker 2:I need that character back on the pit wall but you know what, hey, gunter was involved right at the beginning. He was with jaguar when jaguar broke up and gunter was the conduit between red bull and jaguar, just by the way. Right, I don't think that'd get him back, I think he's too much of a of a clown to actually, and I don't think he could, he couldn, couldn't run a a coffee bar. I don't think you know what I mean. A guy's like really, really rubbish what he did at Haas, let's be honest. So, but Ollie Oaks, that that could be a good odds.
Speaker 1:I would say yeah, and Permain, of course, joined from Racing Bulls. He was the racing director there last year and he's been sort of 30 years in the business.
Speaker 2:No, no, but Alpemaine stays Now. Alpemaine is the V-Corp team principal.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, okay, I thought Permanente was joining Red Bull.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, let me tell you Mekis is gone. Permanente is team principal at V-Corp Right, as you say. There's so many balls in the air, there's so many. I mean 411 phones are burning. You know I can imagine Carlos Sainz hey guys, get me out of this shit. Show that's with them to put me in a Red Bull. Airfmax is going. You know, I can see all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:I can see a lot of j, and that's an interesting point you make, because you know mechies will have his favorites. He will have people he wants to work with, including drivers. So you know that phone's going to be ringing off the hook. Hey, mate, congratulations on the new role at red bull. By the way, you remember what you promised me last time we spoke? Absolutely, you were going to get me out of my contract. You were going to put me in this team or that team you were going to speak to so-and-so. Well, here's a chance. Here I am. I'm talking to you because you've liked me in the past and let's do things together. That's another permutation. I mean, that's another ball in the air. It's unbelievable.
Speaker 2:Now, another thing you've got to note is Mekis is a Frenchman. Okay, Now I'm going to suggest that the way the French manage and the way Christian Horner manages is pretty different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, manage and the way Christian Horner manages is pretty different. Yeah, you know, I don't know. I mean, it's a French guy leading an all-British team. It's, yeah, it's a strange. It's a strange combo, to be honest with you. For me, but that's why, look, let's not knock him, let's give him a blank canvas to, to build the new era for Red Bull. For me, it all smelling of a stop gap for something else, something bigger or something like okay, we've had enough of Formula One. I don't know. I mean like.
Speaker 2:I said, anything could happen. They could downplay their whole operation, say, look, we'll back you forward, but you run, you take over Brackley, you take over everything. Because in the end of the day you must never forget Red Bull are a marketing company. They sell energy drinks. They're in Formula One to sell energy drinks and they'll do the maths and they'll say, okay, it's worth it or not? There's no longer Dietrich Mattes is saying don't worry, he has 100 million from my pocket. Those days are over, so let's see what happens.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well, we're in for a fascinating few days and weeks in the world of Formula One, of course, coming together again in less than two weeks for the Belgian Grand Prix. You just imagine the press corps at that event. You can imagine the driver's conference on a Thursday. You can imagine the cameras in everyone's faces. It's just going to be carnage.
Speaker 2:It's going to be carnage from now until then. I mean already, herbert, I'm not surprised. Christian Horner has been sacked, montoya Horner's sacked because Verstappen is leaving Red Bull. Martin Brundle, what does he say? Yeah, martin Brundle, I'm not surprised. You know, it's the whole. It's going viral. It's just like it's breaking the internet for Formula One fans because it is the biggest team, the big. You know, you've got me as a team manager of the greatest driver on this grid and, yeah, it's a world champion team, you know. So, man, it's, it's I.
Speaker 1:I tell you I'm flabbergasted and, like I said, I don't know what's going on I don't think anyone does for sure, but I'm glad that we were able to come together and put this special together at very short notice, paul. So thank you very much for that.
Speaker 2:Thank you, mate. Thank you, thank you for your time.
Speaker 1:We'll be back with our preview of the Belgian Grand Prix which, as Paul mentioned, could be even spicier if more of these revelations get revealed. But thank you for listening to our special two soft compounds on the day that Christian Horner received his P45 from Red Bull. Paul Velasco is editor-in-chief and founder of GrandPrix247.com. You can go there for the very latest on this story. It's updating all the time and I know Paul's working around the clock to bring those stories to you. I'm Rick. Thanks very much and we'll catch you next time on Two Soft Compounds.
Speaker 1:Two Soft Compounds was presented by myself, rick Hutton, alongside Paul Valesco. The studio engineer and editor was Roy DeMonte, the executive producer was Ian Carlos, and this podcast is a co-production between Grand Prix 24-7 and W4 Podcast Studio Dubai. Don't forget, if you want to join in the conversation, leave a comment on our Instagram page at 2SoftCompounds. We love getting comments, questions, and we'll give a shout out to some of the best ones on the podcast in the next few weeks. You can also email us at 2SoftCompounds at gmailcom and if you haven't done so already, please do click that follow or subscribe button. See you next time.