2 Soft Compounds

Las Vegas GP: Hamilton Meltdown, McLaren Mayhem & Verstappen’s Late-Season Charge

• W4 Podcast Studio • Season 1 • Episode 42

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This week on Two Soft Compounds, Rick and Damien Reid unpack the chaos after Vegas, from Hamilton’s explosive Ferrari comments to McLaren’s double disqualification that’s thrown the title race wide open.

They debate whether Ferrari’s culture is breaking Lewis’ spirit, if Lando’s plank failure was pure bad luck or bad setup, and why the FIA might have missed bigger culprits. The guys also spotlight Antonelli’s stunning rookie rise, Verstappen’s quiet comeback, and the growing psychological warfare inside McLaren.

As F1 heads to Qatar, the championship math gets messy,  and every lap now counts.

All that and more, right here on Two Soft Compounds.

Production Credits:

Presented by: Rick Houghton
Studio Engineer & Editor: Roy D'Monte
Executive Producer: Ian Carless
Produced by: W4 Podcast Studio

Rick Houghton:

I don't make mistakes, I make prophecies that immediately turn out to be wrong. Anything can happen in Formula One, and it usually does.

Damien Ried:

Hey, welcome to another edition of Two Soft Compounds, the Formula One podcast, with me, Rick, and with my good friend Damien Reed, former Formula One commentator and motoring journalist.

Rick Houghton:

Damo, how are you? I'm doing all right, especially after last weekend. I'm loving it. I'm loving it. I'm looking forward to this weekend.

Damien Ried:

Yeah. Wow. We've got to start unpacking this uh slowly on the podcast. Now listen, uh Damo, the the headline's gonna be the disqualification, it's gonna be Max Verstappen's victory, and it's gonna be the points gap now in the drivers' championship. However, uh the driver and the team making all the headlines in between Vegas and Qatar is Ferrari and Lewis Hamilton. Did you hear the interview Hamilton gave to BBC Five Live?

Rick Houghton:

No, I didn't. I've I've been I had a very busy weekend. I didn't catch up with that. I've I've heard it secondhand, but I heard Charlotte Clerk talk about uh, you know, he his his situation with it and and he's one that's always taken it on the chin and taken a lot of blame. And well, he's turned that around. He's he's just dumping on him, and I th and Lewis has kind of joined the party.

Damien Ried:

Yeah, so uh Lewis did an interview on Five Live, quite a frank interview. He said he absolutely detested the Vegas weekend. Obviously, it was his worst qualifying, or the worst qualifying a Ferrari driver had since Fisher Keller back in 2009, qualifying in last place. And there were some reasons for that which we can go into. Uh, but this is what he said to Five Live. He said, I hated, I despise the Vegas weekend. I am hating driving a Formula One car this year. I can't wait for the season to be over. Oh, and by the way, I can't stand the thought of racing in 2026.

Rick Houghton:

The thing is, that's his worst ever qualifying in a in a motor race, let alone Formula One. He's never qualified last before, going right back to his karting days. So, you know, uh that's that's the thing, but he never got a quick run in during qualifying, never got temperature into his tires, then his brakes glazed over. Uh, so you know, I mean he made up some ground during during those crashes in turn one. I mean, he did get some points at the end of the day, you know. I mean, uh a little luck fell his way as it fell everyone's way behind P3. Yeah, it's it's a tough one, and there just doesn't seem to be any joy for for any of the Ferrari guys out of this. That the medium tyres were absolutely appalling on those two cars.

Damien Ried:

Yeah, just I mean, I we've heard him, you know, talk about dissatisfaction with the car and certain elements of the team before this season. But to come out and publicly say he's dreading the thought of racing in 2026 when he knows Ferrari look as though they may have a strong package with their new power unit for next year. And and to say that so publicly, I just thought, wow, okay, so that means he's got problems with the way the team is run, not about necessarily the car itself.

Rick Houghton:

Yeah, and that's the thing, and I and what I found really interesting was when he was asked in, I'm not sure whether that interview or another one that I picked up on, but when he was saying he was eager for the whole thing to end and he's looking forward to it ending and and not looking forward to the next one, he was asked to clarify on that, and uh that they're saying, Are you talking about Qatar? And he goes, No, I'm talking about next season. That he's he's just like he just wants to get out of this year and go and have a holiday and come back and think about next year and probably rue the chan the the thought that he even went there, which is uh an amazing prospect when you think of how much money has been through going his way, and the guy just doesn't doesn't want to be there.

Damien Ried:

Let's talk about Kimi Antonelli because uh he had a great finish in the Vegas Grand Prix, and of course he got a five-second penalty for the jump start, so things could have been even better without that penalty. It's now emerged that Bono, his engineer, who obviously used to be Lewis Hamilton's engineer at Mercedes, uh said on the team radio at the time it wasn't televised, he said that's bullshit. He said they'd looked into it in the uh in the Mercedes Garage with their telemetry and their GPS and they said there's no way he jumped to start. Uh so he thought that the FIA had got that completely wrong.

Rick Houghton:

Yeah, I mean I I don't know. Um my understanding of a jump start is if the car is rolling, not not whether it crosses the line. And you you know, so so perhaps Bono was thinking up that he didn't cross the line, but you could clearly see on the footage that the car started rolling and then it stopped. And uh my understanding is if the car is rolling, that's a jump start, whether it crosses the line or not.

Damien Ried:

Ah, okay. I didn't realise that. I thought I thought if it was rolling and you put the brakes on before you cross the line, then that was okay. But if that if that's a that's a reasonable interpretation, Damer.

Rick Houghton:

Yeah, I mean, I I don't know if I'll now you got me thinking. I might go back and have another another look at all that, but uh but that was my interpretation anyway. But you know, I mean, I'm not gonna suggest that I know the rule book better than Bono by any means. So maybe he's got something there, but that was my that was my interpretation.

Damien Ried:

Kimmy Antonelli, then, great result in Vegas for him. Uh, since we came out of Europe and did the overseas races, he's been on fire pretty much um as the rookie of the year. And some pundits are predicting that if Mercedes get their car right for 2026, then he could be world champion. Wow.

Rick Houghton:

Um Yeah, I mean, look, you know, there's but there's been talk about why he's been he his season has gone the way it has, in terms of, and we talked about it before in a previous podcast there, where he's done well at tracks outside of Europe, and well, it's looking to go that way again. He's he's starting to come on form again. Um, and there's been some talk about the theories behind that, maybe because you know, there's a lot of pressure on him when he's at the European races because of peer pressure. Basically, he's still just he's still just a young fellow, and he's got his his mates going to the races, and uh and that might have had a bit of an impact into you know performing at tracks where he knows people are his friends and his family are turning up to watch, and when he's away from Europe, he doesn't seem to have that pressure and suddenly he's performing again. I'll be very interested to see how he goes, uh obviously this weekend, but also in Abu Dhabi, because that is a track that he has driven a Formula One car around before in because he did the Pirelli tire testing with them last year. So um, and if he gets that into his head that okay, he's ticked all these races off in his debut season and clear that from his head and goes into next season with a clear head, you know, we could see these out off European race results happening inside Europe next year. And yeah, for sure. I mean, to say he's world championship uh contender, uh, I think that's up in the air for everyone next year based on the based on the rules changing. I'm not gonna suggest anyone as a favourite going into next year. I think it's we're we're all back to sp back to ground zero. Um and Kimmy's gonna be in the mix, 100%.

Damien Ried:

Yep, uh teammate George Russell, uh fairly strong performance in Vegas, and uh let's move on to Lando Norris then because uh you know the turn one, Norris looked as though he was gonna be really brave on the breaks and then just ran completely wide. It reminded me of Austin in 2024 when he did a similar thing with Max Verstappen, basically just opened the window for Max, and Max went round on the inside, which is exactly what happened in Vegas.

Rick Houghton:

Yeah, look, I I I think genuinely that what happened there in turn one proves that Max is inside Lando's head. And and and there's a cup, there's a couple of drivers in history that that have had have that ability. And we're talking about the greats, we're talking about Michael Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton, Ainten Center, where you know, we've all heard the stories of other drivers, you know, Gerhard Berger famously saying that if you saw the a yellow helmet coming up behind you with the green and blue stripes, you just got out of the way because Ayton wasn't going to give give way. And uh Jacques Villeneuve saying the same thing about Michael Schumacher, they did come together though, didn't they? Um, you know, so and and and Max is one of those guys where if you see Verstappen in your in your mirrors, you tend to move aside because it's either going to be victory or it's gonna be catastrophe. And I think that's in Lando's head, and I think that's that's what caught him out. He was he took an unnecessary risk in order, considering his championship permutations, that uh that he took a very risky move into turn one. Um, but that was all because he knows Max is there, and Max was probably going to stick up the inside, and he forgot to put his foot on the brake, basically.

Damien Ried:

Yeah, so running wide into turn one allowed Max Verstappen to get past, and then for the rest of the race it was uh it was business as normal uh for the reigning world champion. I mean, he just he's flawless, isn't he? And nothing flusters him at all. Even if he's got a bag of bolts underneath him, he seems to be able to pull the best out of it.

Rick Houghton:

I mean, yeah, look, you know, that's remarkable when you consider the first half of the year. We he wasn't even until the summer break, he wasn't even on the radar, and that's his fourth win in seven races. Uh, and and you know, he's brought down this massive deficit where to the point where he's equal second in the championship now, um, and you you just never ever rule that guy out because he he's just you know, the guy's on fire, he's got no pressure, no stress whatsoever. Uh although one thing made me think that even though Max has been saying, look, I'm not thinking about the championship because I'm not in the hunt really, I'm just gonna go for a race wins, blah, blah, blah. But one thing that made me think that he is is when he came on the rodeo and he said to JP, he was asking about Lando's position and who was allowed, who was around Lando and who was behind him, who was in front of him, because he's thinking of the point situation as to how many points are between me and Lando. So he definitely is thinking about the championship. He just doesn't want to let on about it.

Damien Ried:

Yeah, I mean, if Lando has another DNF this weekend and Max wins, then he's a point ahead going into Abu Dhabi, which is unbelievable. So Lando currently 24 points ahead of Max and Oscar, uh, who are now on both exactly the same points of the drivers' championship. Piastri must be ruining the mistakes that he's made midseason onwards uh to lose the massive lead that he had to Lando, but also now to be equal on points to Max, that must be devastating for his confidence, which was kind of waning anyway.

Rick Houghton:

Yeah, you can see him in the pen, like he was just he was just like this attitude of what do I have to do? And again, a little bit like uh the the race beforehand in Mexico, again, he lost his quick lapping quality due to due to a yellow flag when he was on a flyer, and he was and that's what he was saying in the pen afterwards. He's like, man, what do I need to do to do this? But you know, uh but there's been obviously you know costly mistakes that he's made as well, and and and now that you know he's in this situation where he's equal with Max, uh he's 24 points behind. So, you know, basically, I mean, Lando really only needs to score two more points than than Oscar and Max over the weekend, um, and it's his. Now, he won't do it in the sprint, but he can do that in the Grand Prix. But conversely, to talk it up a little bit for Abu Dhabi, if you're you know getting down to the final race, there is a potential, it's theoretically possible, we could come out of this weekend, this this Grand Prix after Qatar, with Lando Norris in third place in the championship, Max is leading Oscar's second. So, you know, it's it's so wide open right now that yes, the the cards are still stacked in Lando's favour, but we have another situation like we had in Vegas or any kind of anomaly creeping in. And it could be a situation where Lando's back in third in the championship and and you know, Max and Oscar are out out in front. It no one knows.

Damien Ried:

Yeah, it's gonna be fascinating. Let's talk about the disqualification for both McLaren cars, then. First time it's ever happened to them as a team. Uh, so for those that don't know, and most of you probably will, if you're listening to this, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Uh, but every Formula One car has a wooden plank on the base of the floor, uh, which is I mean, they've been doing this for years, by the way. Uh, the the plank is there to uh to basically uh be measured at the end of each race, and if the plank has worn away too much by a certain amount of millimetres, um then the car's considered to be running too low during the race, which gives the team a suspected advantage. Uh we saw Ferrari suffer from this earlier on in the season. Um they had their cars disqualified, I think, twice because of uh plank wear. So this is the the freaky thing to me. Now rules are rules, I know this, but the certainly with Lando's car, he failed the plank test by 0.11 millimetres. That is, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, the thickness of a human hair. Now, rules are rules, but that was so close to being a complete points victory, and uh well, uh coming in second place. Um it's just so unfortunate, isn't it? And and basically McLaren turned round and when they were summoned to the Stewards, they said, Well, yeah, but you you have a look at the bump at the end of the uh Las Vegas strip. That bump, okay, other cars had to tackle it as well. He said, But that that was why our car was grounding out, because the track surface wasn't flat.

Rick Houghton:

But this is the thing. I mean, you know, we're we're we're we're as you say, it's it's it happened to Nico Holkenberg in Bahrain, it happened to Lewis Hamilton in China, and then it happened to Charles Leclerc and Lewis Hamilton again in Texas. So, you know, that there's a precedence there. But yeah, I mean, we're taking such fine tolerances that it is down to you know a human hair's width uh over this. But then again, I'm sure that the other the other teams will be saying, well, look, this is the tolerances we're playing with in Formula One, where several times this season, and I can't remember in previous seasons, but it's happened several times this season, where we've had drivers down to the thousandths of a second being on the identical time, um, and they've had to do a countback, uh, you know, down to three three decimal points, and then you've got a tenth of a second covering, you know, a full field of cars. So when you're talking about that, those kind of tolerances, then this this much of a this minimal wear of a plank makes a difference. Now, from what I understand, is that obviously uh the practice sessions were uh were were disrupted. They didn't have any long runs in FP2 because of the red flags, FP3 was held in the in the rain. So they didn't have any data, but then none of the teams had had the data. They're all in the same uh same boat. What I've what I've heard from people is that um is that uh the bulk of the the the the wear came from the rear of the McLaren, not from the front, which is a little bit unusual. So it tends to suggest that McLaren was shifting the aerodynamic balance back to rearward on the car, possibly to to combat front tire graining issues because of the cold weather. Um, this likely caused the car to squat. So that kind of you know it shows that they were still experimenting right towards the end, but they were worrying about because it's so cold in in Vegas, in previous years, we've had a race where the cars never the tires never reached operating temperature. And McLaren were trying to get rid of the the cold tear issues that were developing on the front by shifting the weight towards the back of the car and putting more squat and more more weight over the rear tires, and eventually that's what it was. Um and and what I heard also is that if they hadn't have given these coded messages over the team radio, they probably wouldn't have found out about it because you know when they're talking about lift and coast and lift and coast, and everyone was suggesting that it was perhaps a fuel issue, it raised the ire of the of the FIA who was saying, hang on, there's no fuel issue with these cars, or there shouldn't be, they've got data as well. And that's when they decided to go down to the garage, and Joe Bauer and his technical team went down to the garage. If they had have kept quiet, they probably would have gotten away with it.

Damien Ried:

Yeah, I'm presuming with the plank wear, I'm presuming they can monitor the wear in real time, then, can they can they, the team? So that's why they were saying lift and coast, because they noticed that the plank was wearing too thin.

Rick Houghton:

Well, this is the this is the thing. This is the one of the things where I don't think they can measure it in real time. It really is just a piece of piece of timber. There is talk about, and it was brought up after Mexico, about the heat expanding, you know, planks, um uh uh mounting measuring points. Um, no one's suggesting that's on that that was on the McLaren's, but you know, that there are there it is one of the few areas where there's a bit of variables and there's a bit of a grey area. So um, you know, that that's one of the things that the the cars were experiencing high levels of porpoising. Um and you know, I think Oscar was also complaining about the heat that's under his car. In fact, uh photographs were taken in the cars during during the course of the weekend where they actually uh after practice sessions, they put uh gold lining on Oscar's seat for heat insulation. It was getting that hot because the cars were bottoming out. So they were aware that they the cars were bottoming out and they were lifting coasting, they were you know one and a half seconds, two seconds, three point six seconds, then three point six seconds slower. Um, and that's what raised the eye of the of the stewards. So you when the stewards go into a team garage, you know it's an extra, it's an extra check. It's not something they do in pit lane or they do with the with the weight with the scales at the at the front. When they go in behind the closed doors and they pull the the curtains up, you know they've come down to check something that's not quite kosher. So yeah, um other teams probably would have failed as well. We don't know because it's a random check. It's just that they decided to check the McLaren's because of the amount of radio chatter, particularly from Will Joseph back to back to Lando about the lift and coast issue.

Damien Ried:

Wow, interesting stuff. Right, we had to uh Qatar in the Middle East and it's going to be a warm race, it always is. Uh traditionally, warm races have suited McLaren, but my memory's like a Civ Damo, uh, did they do well here last year? I can't remember. I think that if I remember rightly, Mercedes did quite well in Qatar.

Rick Houghton:

Yeah, I mean, well, uh last year it was it was a Verstappen win. Charlotte Clerk was was second. Um Fanet, um, I'm trying to think who was Oscar was third, so there you go with that one. But if you go back to it, I'm just trying to think back. Uh McLaren and Hot Weather, they seem to maintain their ties pretty well. But but uh yeah, I'm I'm just saying Lando was yes, okay. I'm just sort of going back through through through my notes here. Lando was second during most of the race, but he had a if you remember, he had a 10-second stop go penalty for ignoring yellows. So that's what dropped him back. Now in um uh Max was on pole, George Russell was second, Lando was third, Oscar qualified fourth, and Oscar won the sprint race from Lando. It was a one-two for McLaren in the sprint. So yeah, McLaren were looking good. The big variable in this weekend is Pirelli, who for the first time, and I can't remember this ever happening before, is that they've limited 25 laps per set of tires. I mean, this is um this kind of reminds me of of Indianapolis from, but but but to a much, much lesser extent. But yeah, 25 laps, that means that um this will probably help Red Bull, in my in my thinking, because they don't, you know, they're the ones who had tire issues, McLaren typically haven't, which means it's a green light for those for teams who have got tire issues. They can just go flat out uh and then box and on lap 25. In fact, we had it in COVID, didn't we? There was a race during that that weird COVID year where they mandated a all cars had to lot had to had to box on a particular lap, which didn't make for an exciting race. I hope it's not gonna be like that.

Damien Ried:

So they can box before 25, can't they? So they don't Yeah. Yeah, so I mean they they could do 20 and then box and then no more than 25 on the next set of tires. So we're gonna have a a mandatory two-stop race at least.

Rick Houghton:

Yeah, so it'll be uh okay, that that's got to th throws a bit of interest into it because uh there'll be there'll be those who who qualify out of position who are definitely gonna start on soft tires, on soft rubbers, and try and do an Antonelli, um, and and and you know, get a head start through the pack. But then heat's gonna come into it. How long are these soft tires gonna last in the hot weather? Not very long. So yeah, massive uh massive air of of of uh of not knowing what's going on is gonna occur in Qatar, I'm sure.

Damien Ried:

It's one of my least favourite circuits on the Formula One calendar. I mean, let's face it, it's a Moto GP track which has been sort of hastily converted into a Formula One circuit and was kind of introduced during COVID because they had better access to uh facilities like Qatar and it's remained on the calendar since, but it's not really a proper circuit in my eyes.

Rick Houghton:

Yeah, I mean it's it's an interesting one. It's it's an incredibly tough, incredibly difficult track to uh for drivers because there are no reference points in terms of where corners are and which number corners are. I was down there a few weeks ago and uh I was doing doing a couple of laps with with the Aston Martin guys and uh in their road cars, I might add, nothing else. But um, but I was talking to some of the drivers, some of the professional drivers as well, saying, look, you know, how do you guys work out around here? Because turn two looks like turn five, turn five looks like turn nine, turn nine looks like turn twelve. You know, you just there's no little hill, there's no tree, there's no bridge, there's no, and it's super, super difficult to get your head around the layer of the land, literally. Um, so that that brings a bit of a uh air of unpredictability, uh unpredictability in into the race. Um and I think one of the races, in fact, one of the races that during that COVID year in Qatar, because I think they went went there twice back to back, was actually pretty exciting, but uh they used a different layout. So yeah, we'll see how we'll see how it all works out, but uh it will help those who like the hotter weather, that's for sure.

Damien Ried:

Okay, uh before we wrap up, let's um let's make some predictions, which is so difficult as we get to this stage of the season. Uh at the moment, as we know, Lando Norris 24 points ahead, uh, Max Verstappen and Oscar Piastri on exactly the same number of points in joint second. Uh so how do you see this weekend panning out, Damon?

Rick Houghton:

Well, I think uh last weekend probably is a bit of an indicator, to be honest with you, I think, with the speeds and everything else in Vegas, but uh but add to that uh the temperature entirely different. I think it's gonna be Max Verstappen who's gonna go in as a favourite for this weekend. Um and I'm gonna throw it out there, I'm gonna throw it out there for Carlos Sainz and the Williams. I think that car has pace, has speed, and uh and and you know, uh he did well last year in when he was with Ferrari there. So, you know, he he does like this place. Um, whether that car can hang in for the distance is gonna be another thing. But yeah, look, Max and Lando and Oscar all in there. George Russell, you can never count him out. You know, he finished fourth last year, but he did it with a five-second penalty. So, you know, George is a guy that just sits in the background, watches it all unfold in front of him, and just accidentally falls into a podium, and he just he just keeps doing it.

Damien Ried:

Yeah, I think my prediction for this weekend in Qatar is that Max is gonna put it on pole and probably win the race. It's just uh fascinating to me as to where Norris and Piastri are gonna come. You know, it Norris has got his qualifying together over the last few uh races, and we mentioned this on the podcast a couple of weeks ago, actually, is that Norris puts that down to the fact that they've removed the delta time from his steering wheel during qualifying, so he's not constantly looking to see, whilst he's on a hot lap, how well he's doing. He says removing that is taking the pressure away so I can just relax and drive the car and drive it fast, uh, which I find equally fascinating. And then we've got Piastri who's got these uh niggles in his head because his confidence is low and he's thinking, what do I have to do to make uh inroads here? I think it's gonna be fascinating both in qualifying the sprint and the race this weekend.

Rick Houghton:

Yeah, for sure. And the sprint is gonna set up a great sort of psychological uh uh win or lose for those three drivers going into the Grand Prix because whoever doesn't do well in the sprint uh is gonna be demoralized going into the Grand Prix. And uh um so you know there's gonna be an awful lot of pressure going into Friday. Remember, there's only one practice session and it's game on straight into it, and there's an extra eight points up for grabs, and they are incredibly valuable eight points uh when we go into this the you know the this end of the season.

Damien Ried:

Obviously, it's Qatar as well, so we're gonna get dry running. Only for famously famous words, the last words are probably gonna rain. No, it's not. Uh Qatar, it never rains in Qatar. Qatar is gonna be a dry race, so uh they're not gonna have those data retrieval points compromised in that they're gonna get the data from the practice, even though there's only one, they're gonna get the data from the sprint qualifying, data from the sprint, data from qualifying the the next day, and and stuff that they can really crunch down and use in the race. So that's gonna make it interesting as well, because any team that arrives and has a dodgy first practice session has time to sort it out before qualifying for the main race and the main race itself.

Rick Houghton:

Yeah, and yeah, and this is what I'm gonna find really interesting is the pressure that's gonna be on McLaren, um particularly on Lando Norris, to uh, you know, as I said, there's one practice session, we go straight into qualifying for the sprint, then we've got the sprint, then we've got the qualifying for the GP and then the GP. And you've got to be on your A game right the way through if you want to get those points that are needed, because if you make a mistake at any point, and and you know, that then it's all over. Obviously, I'm stating the obvious here, but the pressure that's gonna be in Lando's head now is how hard does he push it? How much does he conserve? How much is he prepared to give away ground? Maybe, you know, what's gonna happen, for instance, if if uh if if Max is in a situation where Lando says, look, it'll be better to let Oscar through in order to take points off Max and capitalise for Lando. Is that is that situation going to present itself? It may do. Oh, this is these are the permutations that are now going to start creeping into the papaya rules situation at McLaren. That is Oscar going to help Lando? And is Lando going to help Oscar consolidate second place in the championship? Is it going to make it a McLaren 1-2 in the drivers' championship? Or are they going to let Max get second in the championship and Lando win? Fascinating, fascinating.

Damien Ried:

Uh, Damien, thank you so much for our time. Uh, you've been listening to Two Soft Compounds with Damien Reed and me, Rick Horton. Um, we'll do it all again next time when we'll be looking back at what could be an exciting, well, it will be an exciting Qatar Grand Prix. But now, thanks a lot for listening. We'll see you next time. Two Soft Compounds was presented by myself, Rick Horton, alongside Damien Reed. The studio engineer and editor was Roy Damonte. The executive producer was Ian Carlos. Don't forget, if you want to join in the conversation, leave a comment on our Instagram page at TwoStoft Compounds. And if you haven't done so already, please do click that follow or subscribe button. See you next time.