Miami GP: Shockwaves & Sofa Beds

A five-week break, a sprint weekend, and suddenly the 2025 F1 season feels very different. This week on 2 Soft Compounds Rick and Damien break down Kimi Antonelli’s breakthrough Miami win, why it felt far more convincing than a lucky result, and whether Mercedes are becoming a genuine threat again without even bringing a major upgrade package.

The guys also dive into the technical battle shaping the grid. Ferrari arrives with huge updates, McLaren talks about effectively building a new car across two races, while Aston Martin’s struggles are becoming impossible to ignore. They also unpack Verstappen’s first-lap 360 and why moments like that are often more skill than luck.

Last but not least Rick digs into George Russell’s difficult weekend alongside Antonelli’s rise, Ferrari’s tyre headaches and penalties, plus the inevitable driver-market rumours that follow a chaotic race weekend. 

Production Credits:

Presented by: Rick Houghton & Damien Reid
Studio Engineer & Editor: Ben Dover
Executive Producer: Ian Carless
Produced by: W4 Podcast Studio 

Transcript

Cold Open And Late Arrival

SPEAKER_00 0:03

I don't make mistakes, I make promises that immediately turn out to be wrong.

Miami Takeaways And Kimi Steps Up

Damien Reid 0:08

Anything can happen in Formula One, and it usually does. Hey, welcome to another edition of Two Soft Compounds, the Formula One podcast with me, Rick, and him, Damien. Now we're a bit late. I know Miami happened several days ago. We were planning to record this uh the day after the Miami Formula One Grand Prix, but Iran had other matters in hand. They were firing missiles towards Damien. Our executive producer is in Malaysia. I'm in Liverpool, England, and Damien is still in the UAE. So it's an international effort. This uh but the Miami Grand Prix is done and dusted. It was a sprint weekend. There's lots of uh facts to pick through. Uh Damien, I'll start by asking what your takeaways were from the race in Florida.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Well, I thought the five weeks did us did us a great favor because it gave everyone a chance to uh to try and improve the product a little bit. And and I think we saw that. But yeah, I mean, but what I saw in terms of the driving and and in the Grand Prix itself was I think this was Kimmy Antonelli coming of age. I know it's early days to say that, yeah, but that was an outstanding drive. You know, I mean it's his third win on the truck, but that was the one where he sustained a lot of pressure. Nothing was gifted to him in the film in the form of pit stops or anything like that. It was just hard yakka and he came through. I thought that was a real turning point in Kimmy's driving ability.

Damien Reid 1:27

Yeah, I would definitely agree. We had a number of upgrades to a number of teams. Um, I didn't realize Aston Martin left one of their cars in Japan after Suzuka so that Honda could study it and try and make improvements. But of course, in the end, they didn't. Uh several cars though had upgrades. The the biggest upgrade package came to the Ferrari, and this is obviously after the five weeks because Saudi and Bahrain were cancelled. Uh, so they had lot a lot longer to work on upgrades. Mercedes had none. Ferrari had 11 upgrades, I think. Their rear wing looks like a sofa bed.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Yeah, I know. They've uh they've they've come out with something quite spectacular with that and and and Red Bull likewise with their uh They don't call it the Macarena wing, do they? I mean that's that's Ferrari's call, but but but Red Bull have got theirs. But yeah, I mean, you know, what I found interesting was, yeah, McLaren said that they're going to come out with an entirely new car over the next two races. 50% of the car will be new at the last one, 50% will be new at the next one. And Total Wolf said, look, we're three-tenths of a second up on everyone anyway. We don't need to do anything. Which I thought, okay, that was a bit of a bit of a bit concerning. But then what with what Kimmy did, wow, they they they might be on form because I know Mercedes, I think they're gonna come with some upgrades to Montreal. So yeah, I mean it it's brought the field a little closer together, which is good.

Aston Martin’s Pace Crisis

Damien Reid 2:44

Yeah, I think Williams uh improved a bit. Uh they've still got a long way to go, according to Carlos Sainz. He says it's not gonna be towards the end of the year until they start getting some real performance from that car. Uh, just on the question of Aston Martin, I mean, it's been a real mess since the start of the season. Adrian Newey has only attended the opening race in Australia, he's been in hospital for most of the rest of the time uh with a mystery illness that's not been revealed to us, but he's recovering. Uh, this is the thing about Aston Martin. If you wanted to make a comparison between Formula One and Formula Two, in the Formula One weekend just gone in Miami, Aston Martin qualified in 21st and 22nd place. That's second to last and last. If those two Formula One cars from Aston Martin had been entered into the Formula Two race in Miami, they still would have qualified second to last and last. And that is the gap that they're trying to make up. It's nearly five seconds off the pace. That's ridiculous, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 3:36

I mean, I, you know, it's it kind of cements what I was thinking anyway when I was watching an interview with Colton Herder in the Cadillac and and uh and how he was sort of struggling in the midfield. And I'm thinking he's probably having more fun in the Formula Two car than the guys in the F1 cars, and that's obviously the situation, I think, too, with the Aston Martin guys, um, because the F2 cars are kind of showing up the F1 field at the moment, which I didn't think I'd be saying at this point of the season.

Sprint Win And Race Day Chaos

Verstappen’s 360 Save Explained

Damien Reid 4:03

Yeah, we've got some breaking news on engine changes for next year, which we'll uh talk about in just a bit. Let's get back to the Miami weekend then. Lando Norris uh with the upgrades on the McLaren wins the sprint race. And then in the main Grand Prix on Sunday, the big fear was that it was going to be rained off, and they have very strict laws in Florida about if lightning's around, they have to basically cancel events because you know people have been killed in lightning storms. Uh so they moved the race three hours forward, and that meant that we had a virtually completely dry race. Uh the opening lap was interesting because Max Verstappen, he had the upgrades, which made his performance a little bit better this weekend. But of course, we saw a rare error from Max in the first lap, which caused him to spin round 360 whilst uh flooring it to get out of a difficult situation when he ran wide. Uh, not like Max to do that, but so Martin Brundle described it as a brilliant save uh from doing the pirouettes and then carrying straight on again. Yeah, it was amazing, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Yeah, I mean, Max, someone broke it down and and obviously it doesn't take long for someone to put it up on the on the socials and all that kind of stuff, but but showed that because because Juan Pablo Montoya sort of sort of put him down saying, Oh, it's just luck, and if you can't do that, then you you know we all do that. And and and other other people are saying, well, hang on. What he did was actually quite skillful. And then someone put it out on a on a video showing that he has a particular technique with his 360 spin and recovery, because you're right, he really, rarely does it, but when he does do it, it's on it's it's captured. And he's done it twice at Yas Marino, and we're going back to 2014 a long time ago, and then last year, of course, um, on turn one, and then he did it here. And uh it showed that he has a particular technique where he goes into this spin, and when he's sort of three-quarters way around and he's full opposite lock, he un he he unwinds the opposite lock to keep the thing spinning rather than trying to correct it, gives it a bootful in the throttle to settle the tail, and then jams on the brake, and you see it on the graphics, to stop the car, and then bam, it's 12 o'clock on the road heading up the track. And he and each time it the exact same result. So it's definitely not fluke or luck or or that anyone can do it. It's it's he has a this this hardwired thing into his brain that he knows how to spin this thing 360 and and stop it on a dime facing 12 o'clock with first gear engaged and away he goes. Remarkable talent.

Antonelli Leads And Russell Unravels

Damien Reid 6:25

Yeah, it really is. Uh, Mercedes has been the dominant team since the start of the season. They seem to have got their package worked out pretty good. Uh Antonelli, of course, three wins on the bounce. He becomes the youngest leader of the Formula One drivers championship. And he wins the race, the main Grand Prix on Sunday in Miami with his teammate George Russell down in fourth. Now, this isn't the first time Russell hasn't made the podium with Antonelli winning a race. Uh, do you think there's concern in the Russell camp? Is he is he starting to look the weaker driver in the Mercedes team?

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yeah, big time. Uh, I think so. Because, you know, if you look back at the the previous two races where Kimmy's won, the the last race in particular, you know, it it was it that was George's races to lose, and Kimmy effectively inherited the lead because of a safety car, and he boxed under the safety car at that time. It was a yellow flagged stop, it was a free stop. George missed it. If you remember, he stopped the the lap before when it was still green flag, and that cost him four seconds, and and then you know, Kimmy went on to win. So you could say, okay, that was a lucky win for Kimmy, but take it anyway. Uh and I'm sure in the five weeks since then, before up until Miami, George is thinking, right, we can't let this happen again. I need to re-establish my my authority. But right across the weekend, practice and qualifying and sprint, he didn't have the the he didn't have it to to match Kimmy. And then in the in the in the race itself, he just couldn't catch him. And they were green flag pit stops, and there was nothing that George could do to rein in the young fellow in front. And this would have to be a big concern for George Russell. And if he doesn't get on top of him in Montreal, I don't know what. Because one thing I noticed, Rick, was I don't know if you picked up as well, but the language, the the body language and and what George was saying. He was defeated before the race even started, before we even got to Sunday, Saturday afternoon. He was saying things like, This doesn't really this track doesn't really suit me, and I'm not really you know into it, and all, you know, let roll on roll on Canada. And he'd already given up. And this is the this is the concern, you know?

Ferrari Upgrades And Leclerc’s Penalty

Damien Reid 8:26

Yeah, I noticed that. I mean he finished 43 seconds behind his teammates, which really in equal machinery shouldn't be happening. Uh, there's one thing I noticed during the race, after the safety car, Russell got got on the radio and and sort of chastised his team for for not telling him to come out of safety car mode and go back into race mode. And I think I think the the commentator, I think Crofty called it on the commentary when he said, Well, hang on a minute. He said, Okay, so he's he's having a go at the team because I haven't reminded him to change engine modes, but that's his job. You know, he should know when the safety car finishes, he changes the engine mode back to the default race setup, and he didn't. So he was getting frustrated on the radio. I think the team were trying their very best, but you know, it was just not not a great weekend for George Russell again, it has to be said. Um, also with the Ferraris and the upgrades they had, they had the most upgrades, they had 11 upgrades. Uh, it was not great for Lewis Hamilton, but he was carrying damage from an opening lap incursion. And of course, Charles Leclerc, who eventually finished in eighth, uh, was complaining most of the race about his tires not lighting up properly. And then, of course, we saw him uh we saw him spin um in a similar fashion to Max Verstappen, but his spin, uh, even though he got it round 360, ended up with him putting a wheel into the wall. And then, of course, he received a penalty uh for not pulling the car over to the side of the track, which I thought was a bit harsh because it was still running, the all four wheels were still attached, there was just obviously some clear damage there.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Yeah, I mean that was rubbish, absolute rubbish with that penalty for for Charles Leclerc. I mean, you know, yes, he you know, he did do that, but his finishing position from where he was before the spin kind of means that he served his own penalty anyway. You know, if if you gain it, if you gain an advantage out of out of any on-track infringement, then yeah, bring the penalty in. But we've seen it before where people have gone or where drivers or whatever have, you know, they've they've come out sort of three, four places behind or for whatever reason, and they've gone, oh, well, that's effectively his penalty anyway. And that should have been the case. It should have been the case in this situation. It's it's it's not like he was doing anything intentional to try and block anyone or or uh make anyone else's race tougher. He just had a a car that was a bucket of bolts by the end of it, and the difference between his spin and Max's is that Max was under the opening lap pressure and and cold tires. Charles's car was just it just used up the rear tires. There was nothing left, and it was very uncharacteristic to have a spin completely an own goal. You know, there was no no one else involved in it. So yeah, he'd be scratching his head. But yeah, I think that I thought that was a an incredibly tough penalty that was unjustified.

Damien Reid 11:02

I wanted to talk about Alpine. We know that uh Flavio Briattori's uh in charge of that team, he rules rules with an iron fist, but Alpine have had a decent start to the season. They've got more points so far this season than they acquired in the whole of 2025.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Yeah, I mean it's it's it's good to see, it's good to see the team coming through. And and I think the power unit has a lot to do with that because obviously they're running Mercedes Power Unit now and not building their own. But also, too, maybe a bit of stability in the team as well. As we saw with they went through several team principals last year, and some under some some dubious circumstances with their family members involved in court cases and various things. So, you know, that that had a bit of a ripple effect through the team, and also driver changes as well. And there was a lot of turmoil with the fan base, with the the Colapinto and the Dewan fan bases, respectively, when Jack Doan was dropped after a couple of races and Franco came in. So I think now the continuity of having two drivers for the whole season, having the same team principles so far. We're only four races into it, but that's four more than we were last time. And and the good power unit with Mercedes, I think that's it's all starting to come together for Alpine, and and I hope I hope it continues for them.

Damien Reid 12:09

I think we've commented a few times on the podcast this season um on how impressive the start for Audi was. I mean, Audi are making their own power unit, which is, you know, that those those things that take a long time to refine, uh, but they kind of hit the ground running. They didn't have a great Miami race with Bortiletto finishing in twelfth. Uh but suddenly the arrival of Alan McNeish as uh as team principal, which is uh I think surprised many people.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Yeah, the Wii Scott, I think it's a good move. I think it's great. I mean they had a yeah, it was a bit of a a bit of a horrible one for Miami. Both cars, I think both cars got actually caught on fire, didn't they? At at various points across the weekend. And and then Colopinto, uh sorry, Holkenberg had had trouble as well, and and Bordletto eventually got it got a penalty. So a bit of a tough one, but I think you know, it's a this is a long-term operation, a couple of years before you're gonna see them on a podium. And I think they accept that. But the thing with Alan McNish brings to the to the team is his ability and his intellectual property in his head about how to have race-winning hybrid cars. Obviously, with all these years at Audi winning Lamont with hybrid cars, um, and then of course he was the boss of Audi's Formula E team a couple of years as well. So he's got an enormous amount of of uh of knowledge in his head that's gonna come through with that team in the future. I think it's an amazing move. And the fact that he's uh he's an ex-Formula One driver, he's an ex-racer, he knows what he's doing.

Damien Reid 13:34

Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how he develops that team. Uh, of course, in Miami, everyone uh has different liveries, especially when it comes to drivers' helmets. I think my favorite was probably Max Verstappen's. It was just it just looked gorgeous, I thought. Uh, but the Racing Bulls, yellow livery, that was a winner for me. I mean, they just look great, those cars.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Yeah, they did look good, didn't they? I thought that was that was pretty neat. They always tried something a little bit different. I think last year they had like a pinkish hue to them as well. So getting in with the whole Miami Vice kind of scene with with their Yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's a marketing game, isn't it? And they uh they certainly I would I would love to see the TV figures in terms of uh of minutes of uh of TV time. I think they probably would have got more than they've had this year.

DNFs, Hadjar’s Error, And Pressure

Damien Reid 14:16

Yeah, without a doubt. I'm gonna talk uh about the people who had disastrous Miami races, and and namely the uh the cars and drivers who didn't finish. So Nico Hulkenberg was uh the first one out in the Audi. Uh no, sorry, he wasn't, he was the last one out. Uh Isaac Hadjar had a nightmare. He clipped the uh inside wall in the chicane, and that was the end of his race. And boy, he beats himself up when he makes a mistake, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Isaac is, having spoken to him a couple of times, he's an incredibly emotional guy, and he and he wears his heart on his sleeve, and he's a he's an incredibly shy guy as well. It's very hard to get more than two lines out of him when you're speaking to him, but he he's he just takes everything personally. And yeah, I mean you can see him, he's you know, he's it's not the first time he's bashed the steering wheel with his fist, but boy, he really got stuck into it. And and let's not forget, you know, even though uh Helmut Marco's not there, and Dieter Massachusetts are not there as a new management team at Red Bull, it is still a school of hard knocks, the Red Bull school, and there and there are you know people in the wings ready to take his seat. And he understands this. So, yeah, I mean, poor guy, he just made a mistake like everyone else does, but he really owns it, that's for sure.

Driver Market Rumours And Alonso’s Luck

Damien Reid 15:25

Yep, so rumours that uh Oscar Piastri from McLaren may be lined up to replace Max Verstappen at Red Bull, should he move on? And talking of moving on, there's been loads of rumours since Miami about Fernando Alonso. Uh now Fernando has made probably the worst choice, career choices in Formula One at any driver in the history of the sport. He wins two world championships with Renault and then makes crazy decisions. You know, when he went to McLaren, when Honda were to every car he drove was pants, basically. Um and this time he's waited for Adrian Newhead to come along and design the Aston Martin. We know the problems with that car and the engine, the power unit. Um, but the rumour is that he may throw in the towel at the end of this season. Now, if he does that, it'll be another classic Alonso move. I love him. He's a great driver, probably still at his age, one of the best drivers on the grid. But I you can see it, you can predict what's going to happen, can't you? He's going to throw in the towel at the end of this, leave the Aston Martin team, and next year they're going to have a dominant car which could have won in the world championship.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. I keep I keep thinking looking at Fernando. I think, yeah, he's an incredibly talented driver, probably arguably the most talented driver on the grid right now, still considering his age and what he's what he's getting out of out of that car. But you're right. I mean, you look back at his career, he's won the championships going back with with Benetton and Renault. Uh, then he went to Ferrari, Ferrari was a was a nightmare. Then he, you know, and then he's moved on to McLaren with the the famous GP2 engine in the Honda, the Honda engine in the back of the McLaren was a disaster. He clashed with Ron Dennis, then he went to Alpine, and that wasn't working. And yeah, Aston Martin now, and he just seems to follow somehow like a magnet. He picks the team on the cusp of becoming the worst team on the grid, and then hello Fernando, and then he leaves and it picks up again. I don't I don't know. But yeah, I think if Fernando leaves, it's probably gonna be a good aim for Aston Martin based on his history.

FIA Engine Changes And V8 Talk

Damien Reid 17:19

Yep, maybe so. Uh let's talk about the break-in news then as we head towards Canada for the next race. Uh the FIA have confirmed major engine rule changes for next season. Now, we've heard about the V8 being reintroduced in 2030. My first thought was, well, that's too far down the line. They need to do it a lot sooner than that. And that may still happen. Uh, but basically, uh, if you're new to the sport of Formula One, this year the rule changes have upset a lot of people, including the drivers and including purists like me and Damien. Uh basically, it's 50% battery power and 50% internal combustion engine power. And we've seen this super clipping and we've seen mistakes and errors made by drivers who suddenly have a boost of power without realizing they're going to get it. And it's been a bit of a mess. I think for the casual viewer, the racing's been closer and more exciting. The yo-yo effect is something that's starting to do my head in because you get past a car and you know you're just going to get repassed again when his battery's up to speed. So now they're saying that in 2027 they're dialing down the battery power. So the internal combustion engine will from next year provide 60% of the power and the battery 40%. What are your thoughts on that, Damo?

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Yeah, I mean it's it's it's a band-aid measure, but it's got you've got to do something, right? You have to do something. This is not sustainable with what they're what they're running now, because as you say, drivers don't like it, uh the the media don't like it, the purists don't like it, the uh and and and it you're second guessing it. You see someone pass and you think, well, was that a legit pass, or was that because he ran out of battery, and then sure enough he gets passed again. So something needs to be done. And I and there was going to be four points during the year when that when the the the the engine committees were going to come together and re-evaluate everything. And thankfully this is the first one, and they're going, right, we need well, it might be the second one actually, because uh the first one was before Miami. So they're having another major look at this, and I think it's great. And yes, off the back of of the announcement on the weekend in Miami from Mohammed bin Salaam saying that VH will be coming back in 2031, for sure in 2031, because if it's 2031, they don't need any manufacturer agreement. They can just do it. 2030, they do need the agreement, but Toto Wolf's has already said Mercedes is in. It's gonna be probably a 8010 or a s or a or a maybe uh sorry, 80-20 or maybe even a 9010 um very mild hybrid, mostly combustion. Uh, but it's a long way down the track, Rick, as you said. But the reason is is it's gonna it's a wholesale change and it's gonna take at least five years to start again, to throw everything out and completely redesign an engine unit again. And a chassis as well. This chassis is designed around the battery that sits under the driver, and they're not gonna need a battery that size. So yeah, it's a massive, massive, massive change, but they've got to fix it.

Damien Reid 20:06

Yeah, it just makes you wonder, you know, Formula One, the pinnacle of motorsport, which often translates into the road cars, and that's why it's right up there with the uh the premier uh technology and engineers and aerodynamicists and all that stuff, and you think, well, they brought these 26 rules in and they haven't really worked. Could they not have foreseen that? Because I think most people would welcome the return of uh normally aspirated cars with the tur, or maybe with the turbos as well and the V8s, um, uh which w we all sadly missed when they went into the hybrid era. And I think it's taken uh a set of rule changes like this this season that's made people go, you know what, we miss the old school, let's bring it back. And it's not that's not really the pinnacle of technology, is it? No, but this is the thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

I mean, you you kind of hit the nail on the head there. Formula One is because they're going down the manufacturer path with the manufacturers, it's it's mimicking the automotive industry. And if you remember going back to when they started working on this this 2026 rule sort of six years ago, 2020, 2021, the whole car industry was going EV, and that was the mandate from the EU. We're going to be 100% electric cars by 2030 and all that kind of stuff. Now, of course, that's not happening because it's just it's it's just a a farcical sort of situation to think that that would happen. So the whole car industry is now thinking, okay, let's bring V8 back V8 back, and as a hybrid, and AMG as a road car division is a classic example. They dropped the V8s, they went to four cylinders. Now they're going, no, we're going to bring the V8s back. And so Formula One is now starting to look back at the automotive industry and going, well, that's the way they're going. We should do that. So rather than lead the automotive industry, they're now kind of following uh because they've been forced to. But this is the way the industry is going, and and they're the hand has been forced to a large extent, but uh, hopefully some kind of semblance is gonna prevail and and and uh we're Have some some fun cars again.

Canada Preview And What To Watch

Damien Reid 22:01

Yes, looking forward to that. Let's just hope I'm still alive to see it. Uh right, we're getting towards the end of the podcast this week. Uh looking forward to Canada. It's a racetrack which brings up some surprises. Uh it's favors cars like Ferrari normally do quite well at uh Montreal. And actually, uh to tell you the truth, Mercedes and McLaren have had good bursts there in the last few years. Um it's also a track that can throw up some uh some freaky weather conditions. I remember the uh the Jensen Button race with uh Sebastian Vattle that went on for sixteen and a half days. Um those rules have gone now, so the races can't be that long. But um it's it can be an exciting race weekend, can't it?

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Oh, yeah. I mean I still rate that as one of the best races ever, even if it did go for four and a half hours and finish in the dark. Jensen Button taking five pit stops to go from last to first. But yeah, but this is the sort of stuff that Montreal does deliver. And uh, you know, we're gonna see a big upgrade, another upgrade from McLaren. We're gonna see an upgrade coming from Mercedes. Uh Ferrari, yeah, you're right. I mean, Ferrari is should should do well there. And it's a track that rewards the brave. The the Wall of Champions, there's no runoff area. Um, you've you've got to keep your wits about you. And uh I don't know, again, I'm I'm I'm thinking ahead, youthful exuberance, Kimmy Antonelli, as Barry Shearn used to always say, they're young, they don't know how much it hurts. So, you know, I think Kimmy Antonelli just going for it. I think Yeah, he he'll be another strong contender, especially with these upgrades.

Damien Reid 23:32

Yeah, Nigel Mansell's been quite vocal in the last couple of weeks, and he says uh the the modern Formula One means that kids like Kimi Antonelli can just come out of lower formulas, get into the modern F1 car and be right on it from the get-go, and that seems to be what's happening. I know he had a very disappointing European season last year when luck just didn't go his way. But this year, wow, I mean the kid is on fire. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

And you know, and and Nigel's right to an extent. I mean, you've you've these cars from I've never driven one, of course, but but from what I understand, talking to, you know, what Max and Fernando and everything else, that they're a much, much easier car than they were of decade uh of seasons ago. But having said that, you've got to remember too, Jensen Button and Kimi Riken and did the same thing as Kimi Antonelli. They skipped what was then Formula Two uh and went straight into the into the big league, and that was with the V8s and the V10s. So, you know, you you've got to recognise talent when it's there. But yeah, I mean, I think they're probably not as hard as they were to drive back in Niger's day.

Wrap-Up And Where To Follow

Damien Reid 24:33

Okay, we'll roll on Montreal, the Canadian Grand Prix, in just over a week's time, and we'll be here to uh to cover that on Two Soft Compounds. Damo, thanks so much for your time. Always a pleasure, mate. Thank you. And we'll uh join you again. Tell your mates, tell your family, tell your friends about two soft compounds. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts from, and we'll see you next time for another episode. Two Soft Compounds was presented by myself, Rick Corton, alongside Damien Reed. The executive producer was Ian Carlos. Don't forget, if you want to join in the conversation, leave a comment on our Instagram page at TwoSoft Compounds. And if you haven't done so already, please do click that follow or subscribe button. See you next time.